Saturday, 01.19.13: Daily WOD

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Find:

2 RM Overhead Squat

then...

DB Quarter Gone Bad

Complete 5 rounds for total reps:

DB Thrusters 50 lbs, 15 seconds
Rest 45 Seconds
50 pound Weighted pull-ups, 15 seconds
Rest 45 Seconds
Burpees, 15 seconds
Rest 45 Seconds

Post total reps to comments.

Tony Foster

50 Comments:

1. @Baz,
Here's a link to the sledge platform I made out of scrap (I revised it a bit today after our conversation).
https://picasaweb.google.com/110715299739784946820/SledgeStrikeTire?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKL30dXjs83Z1wE&feat=directlink
Comment by Josh V - 28/5"7/165 — January 18, 2013 at 4:24pm
2. Okay, so I submitted this question to TTMJ a year or so ago, and I now have given up on it being addressed on there, so this one is for the CF Football nation. When you do a power clean, assuming form is squared away and everything, you generally should be able to do less weight than you can do on a full clean, and the common thought is that you are moving less weight a greater distance more explosively, and the explosiveness of the movement is the goal. Everyone agree more or less to this point? So, why is it that when we do KB swings, the general thought is that a Russian swing is better for generating explosiveness? To me, it seems like a Russian swing is more equivalent to a full squat clean, in that you are moving more weight a lesser distance, with the move being generated by explosive hip movement. And the American swing with lesser weight to full overhead would be more like a power clean because you are moving less weight a greater distance with the explosive hip movement. Anybody know the actual reason why this makes sense or have any good ideas?
Comment by Michael Malmfeldt — January 18, 2013 at 4:59pm
3. The russian swing has a faster turn over, therefore a faster movement, thus the ability to generate more violent contractions with the hips.

Also what is the point of taking the KB overhead into an American Swing?

Shoulder flexibility?

Desire to drop the KB on your head and cut the workout short?

Personally, I think your question is kind of retarded and makes me scratch my head at the lack of brain power around here some days. And I have no doubt why john didn't answer it on TTMJ.

I think you might have done one too many american swings and let go of the KB at the top of the movement.
Comment by Hal — January 18, 2013 at 5:12pm
4. Straight from the FAQ: "The Russian Swing is the standard for CrossFit Football. The American Swing is used in CrossFit for clear judging purposes. We use the swing as a tool to generate violent hip extension and gas our athletes. The Russian swing accomplishes this for us."

Comment by Christian — January 18, 2013 at 5:31pm
5. violent contractions with the hips
Comment by Rick G. — January 18, 2013 at 5:47pm
6. I am a few days behind but will catch up this weekend. Did Tuesdays workout.
PR 455 x 5 DL
95 x 1 pull-up
Ex 102 total KB clean and press
Comment by AaronP — January 18, 2013 at 5:53pm
7. @Michael - your comparison is flawed. The proper comparison would be the clean versus the snatch. Lower weight, longer travel. We are generating more force by working against more resistance. Not necessarily more power but more force. This is why we use 2 pood kbs when mainsite almost never does. Its also pretty clear from a programming perspective in yesterdays workout that the two exercises complement each other. The hammer works the upper and the kb swings the lower part of the motion, with some overlap.
Comment by CW — January 18, 2013 at 5:55pm
8. @ Hal,

I'll bet you $1000 dollars I am smarter than you and we can test by any method you want. So, maybe you should tone down the brain condescension a little bit.

@ Christian- there was no question about why Crossfit uses the American swing and CF Football uses the Russian. The question was about the reasoning behind the logic, and outside of the FAQs I have seen many people explain the reasoning of Russian instead of American as it being a more explosive movement, but thanks for the direction to the FAQ, like I have never looked there before. I have been following this site for years. Does anyone want to suggest that the reasoning has something to do with dick punches now too?

@ CW- I see your point about the comparison but I'm not really comparing anything but the distance the weight travels. With that in mind, I think the weight has to travel farther (or at least about the same distance) with a Power clean as it does with a full snatch as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the explosive aspect of the lift is over as soon as the explosion of the hips is over. So, wouldn't you be concerned mostly with the distance the weight travels and the amount of weight more than catching position or anything else? For the sake of argument, let's say a 3/4 swing vs a russian swing. Obviously, coming straight overhead does nothing for you outside of a judging tool for a completed rep.

Oh and one more thing to Hal, according to your obviously incredible intellect, a swing with a 1" range of motion would be vastly superior because of how fast the turnover is. Hmm, yep you are Mensa material for sure.
Comment by Michael Malmfeldt — January 18, 2013 at 6:46pm
9. Yes it is a number of factors. Turnover is important. The faster motion is more applicable to football, think blocki.g. A 1" ROM wouldnt do anything because it wouldnt allow the hips to fire completely so that is silly. Also again the fact that that we use heavier weights. Doing american w 2 pood is going to end up with a lot of shoulder involvement. There have been numerous articles on this - russian for explosivity, american as more of a pure conditioning exercise.
Comment by CW — January 18, 2013 at 6:58pm
10. Michael, I have to admit I'm left scratching my head as I'm searching for an intelligent answer. Apples n oranges! They both taste great, but are completely different
Comment by Jaybird — January 18, 2013 at 7:01pm
11. I agree, a 3/4 russian swing gets the job done, but I think of the last 1/4 of the russian swing as part of the rhythm. For me, the american swing is simply more difficult to execute at higher weights and reps (I couldn't have done yesterday's workout w/2 pood american), so I appreciate this site's use of the russian swing. My lower back feels otherwise however. Anyway, I know this wasn't a great answer, just my 2 cents, so I'll administer a few DPs now.
Comment by Ben R — January 18, 2013 at 7:05pm
12. Others surely know better than I, but I am going with John's rule #1 from Wednesday which is to "not overthink" this. Heavier weight requires more hip explosiveness to move the weight. However, I don't think the comparison to the clean or power clean is accurate. Most everyone here is capable of taking the 2 pd overhead and could do so with the hip and not much shoulder. The clean as a failed power clean comparison I understand you to make would be apples n oranges as Jaybird notes.

So again, the "why" IMO is heavier weight and more focus on the hip instead of dragging the thing overhead trying to meet some standard.
Comment by TRuss — January 18, 2013 at 7:09pm
13. Michael- From my own experience, shoulders burn out faster going full overhead, especially with 32kg, and that's generally what stops me from continuing long swing sets. Keeping it means the shoulders don't fatigue as fast, so for me at least I can get a lot more reps out. I'd say the idea behind the WOD is more that you can continue to develop power while extremely gassed, rather than extremely sore through the upper body.

Also stow the attitude, "I bet you $1000 I'm smarter than you"? What the fuck?
Comment by Karl — January 18, 2013 at 7:17pm
14. Bummer, we were on such a good run of friendly board conversations...

@Michael: I think it's a valid question, but I agree with some of the other posts that either way you're getting violent hip extension on a large load regardless of swing height. My 2 cents: with a lack of shoulder mobility with a swinging bell overhead most people hyperextended the back which is no bueno, so limiting this wear and tear with the program's large posterior chain focus is probably best for longevity. That's my personal reason for the American swing.

This question also came up at my cert, or some derivation of it, and the response was that we squat enough during the week that there doesn't necessarily need to be another squat (read squat clean) added on to what we're doing. In that sense, the clean/squat clean and American/Russian swing comparison can also be seen as a durability and longevity move to keep from crushing ourselves. Though most people don't use it this way, the point of the program really is based in application to sport, so whatever is going to keep you healthiest for the field of play and still have significant carrier should be utilized.
Comment by dredlocked — January 18, 2013 at 7:57pm
15. Meant that's my personal reason for the Russian swing. Eye level is plenty high for me.
Comment by dredlocked — January 18, 2013 at 8:03pm
16. Burpees and thrusters are yuck! Great werkout.

OHS @195
84 reps @ time, continued to 100 for good measure.
Comment by Cev — January 18, 2013 at 8:17pm
17. Is it 50lbs in each hand I'm assuming or is it 50 total?
Comment by Jordan ogrady — January 18, 2013 at 8:46pm
18. @Michael Malmfeldt

Let's consider this, the amount of energy produced on a 1RM power clean is equivalent to a 1RM Full clean. PE = mgh, so presumably the heavier weight full cleaned would travel a proportinately shorter distance than the power clean. We likely do PC versus FC because this proportion only works if your FCtechnique is really good. We are not really Oly lifters, so it's easier for us to get to our maximum energy output with the PC

The swings are a different issue since we never swing to a 1RM. We usually try to generate a good deal of force on our Russian swings, but even they would be way less that 1RM swing. The 25M ball throw we did last week was likely the closest we've ever been prescribed as a 1RM "swing"

Thoughts?
Comment by rego — January 18, 2013 at 8:54pm
19. Michael - More often than not, shoulders will give out before the hips (weakest link in the system), so by eliminating them from the movement, you can work the hip drive more effectively.

Ditto for power clean. You can "cheat" the hip drive if you have a quick drop and solid bottom position. Can't do that with power versions.

Remember, these are just tools for achieving an end product. They are assigned within the context of CFFB, whose demographic primarily plays an external sport or have jobs requiring max power output in short bursts, as opposed to trying to be Crossfitters. Thus, certain movements are eliminated/tweaked to best suit program goals.

Rego - my full oly lifts suck. My 1RM is either 95# or 115#. It might actually be 65# for snatch. Conversely, my power versions are roughly 100-110# better.

My personal takeaway is, I'm glad 2+ poods and 40-60# ball slams are RX'd. No one at my gym ever uses them, so I never have to compete for gear. 1.5 pood, on the other hand would be an entirely different story.
Comment by Ingo B — January 18, 2013 at 9:10pm
20. LOL, same hear Ingo. Actually my Full Clean is zero because I cant really get into a full catch position
Comment by rego — January 18, 2013 at 9:18pm
21. CFFB Nation,
Wanted to see what you guys thought about this article posted on my box's website:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/max_out_on_squats_every_day
I realize that these guys are olympic lifters and spend five hours in the gym, but I swear John left a comment one day that talked about how at one point he was squatting five times a week. I could be just imagining shit though. Anyways, tell me what you think.
Comment by Prich13 — January 18, 2013 at 10:01pm
22. i bet you a 1000 dollars my dick is bigger then yours...yet know one has a ruler and no ones dicks are out
Comment by Fintan — January 18, 2013 at 10:42pm
23. 2 RM OHS @135, still nothing too great but getting better. Rest of wod as Rx'd, total 86 reps.
Comment by Ryan G — January 19, 2013 at 3:15am
24. OHS 2 RM 205 tried 225 and failed on the second attempt.
88 total reps
5'9/168 lbs
Comment by John Kenn — January 19, 2013 at 3:23am
25. @Michael. I going to assume you are asking this question to get an idea of what is best for you. I use the full clean during most SWODS because I compete and can lift more weight in a full clean or full snatch. Most guys here don't need/want to get in a full squat snatch or rack position so a power clean works great for them because they can still move heavy shit explosively. Use whatever lets you lift more
Comment by ABell — January 19, 2013 at 5:22am
26. @Jordan 50# in each hand. When in doubt, go heavy!
Can't wait for this workout today, almost at my one year of doing cffb and the programming has me excited every day!
Comment by jeff h — January 19, 2013 at 6:02am
27. @Fintan - Best comment on this site in months. Nothing worse than a nettubes tough guy.

DWOD
- OHS 2RM@215. Shoulders a little fatigued so I called it there.
- 85 reps (7, 4, 6 each round).
Comment by Shawsie — January 19, 2013 at 7:35am
28. Did a 5 mile run at a pretty good pace. I have been taking the advice that John has given in the past to those with an interest in maintaining some distance ability and am doing distance days on saturdays. I have also noticed that it makes me fresher for the week, i am really ready to get after it come monday.
Comment by CW — January 19, 2013 at 8:37am
29. @Josh V - superb! Will have a crack at something similar (probably to go on top of a sandbag). Thanks
Comment by Baz — January 19, 2013 at 9:26am
30. Is that a real "CW" post? I don't know the man personally, but nothing about 225# with an occasional flaring hip screams "distance ability" to me...
Comment by TRuss — January 19, 2013 at 9:59am
31. @Baz, I just use a regular size car tire that I picked up from a local mechanic for free. Any auto shop that changes tires will have a huge pile of the old ones out back. I just told them I wasn't going to put iton my on my car and they were fine with me grabbing a couple. It hardly takes up any space and works great.
Comment by Ferreus — January 19, 2013 at 10:04am
32. "SWOD"
- OHS 2RM@220#; wrist didn't feel great but was good enough

"DWOD"
Bro sesh in the gym today:

2012 Regionals Team WOD
75 squats (135#)
50 pullups
25 shoulder to overhead (135#)
75 front squats (85#)
50 pullups
25 shoulder to overhead (85#)
75 OHS (65#)
50 pullups
25 shoulder to overhead (65#)
-13:42; parter and I finished :03 behind our opponents, basically because I couldn't butterfly the pullups and they can. We CRUSHED them on squats and beat them overhead every time.

3 power cleans
3 front squats
3 shoulder to overhead
1 min to do work, 1 min to rest

-made it through 3 rounds at 185#, cleans were getting sloppy and wanted to mind wrist.


Comment by dredlocked — January 19, 2013 at 10:07am
33. @Truss- yes, that is me. Before I took up CFFB i was at about 205# (but that was super light for my frame) and running 30 or so mi a week. I very much enjoy distance- both running and cycling- it is a different rush which i really like. I bought into CFFB 100% and put on a lot of weight with strength to match. But after a year i am wanting to have a bit of a balanced approach- CFFB will still be my bread and butter but i want to do the occasional 10k, half, or 50 mile bike ride. So i am adding a bit of that back in. As they say..."what are you training for?"
Comment by CW — January 19, 2013 at 10:22am
34. @Shawsie..thanks man gotta hate the keyboard warriors
Comment by Fintan — January 19, 2013 at 10:38am
35. Wow - i can't contribute intellectually to any of this discussion, except to say that there have been some really useful responses and thought on all of this. When I started using heavier KBs in my training I adopted the weakest link in the chain attitude and stuck with "russian" swings (although admittedly sometimes the bell went a little higher than eye level b/c of explosive hips), but never during a russian swing does my shoulder(s) fatigue prior to my hips. That and safety just make sense to me.

I also like the discussion about PC v. FC. I workout in an Olympic lifting training gym; my workout partner is Caleb Williams (multi-time national champion, 69kg american record holder) - he laughs when I do power cleans... but, since I've restarted CFFB and focused on power cleans I've realized that I needed to start using my hips more. I (relatively) mastered the full clean and my numbers were increasing steadily, but I think that was because I had "gotten" the technique of being fast under the bar and felt that I'd lost some of the necessary explosiveness through the hips. A true full clean (olympic or worlds caliber) encompasses both explosive hips and speed under the bar; it must else the dudes wouldn;t be Full cleaning shit tons of weight. Starting to the train the PC again has brought this to my attention and yesterday I powercleaned 295, would have been 300 if I had half a brain for loading the bar; previously 301 was my best full clean. re-focusing on the violent hip explosion is what brings this number up and I feel really confident that I can keep my speed under the bar and probably full clean much more now.

my 2 cents.

Training today had to be modified: I walked into the gym and the group class was 14 members large. One of our new coaches was running the class and it was his first time with the training wheels off, so I hung with him in case he needed help - turns out he nailed it. So instead I did some interval rowing, also thinking about making Saturdays a LONG(ish) day, like CW and then I mobilized the shit out of my shoulders and hung out in the splits for a few minutes.
Hoping that "fresh" come the new week that CW mentioned applies to me as well. Yoga tomorrow!
Comment by Steven Platek a.ka. Professor Booty — January 19, 2013 at 10:42am
36. WOD Scaled: 115# thruster (=20# vest), +20# vest pullups, +20# vest burpees, 101 reps (too light)
Comment by Fielder — January 19, 2013 at 10:57am
37. 2RM - 145# (no bumpers)

As Rx'ed plus elevation training mask at 3000'
-74 reps

This one felt good.

M/34/173#/5'11"
Comment by Kevin D — January 19, 2013 at 11:10am
38. DWOD:
50# db's @ 6, 6, 6, 6, 6
25# PU's @ 5, 5, 4, 4, 4
Burpees @ 3, 4, 4, 4, 4

71 total reps
Body is gassed after this week. Ready for some rest.
Comment by EJ — January 19, 2013 at 11:11am
39. OHS 2RM @ 275
WOD as rx'd but didn't do much counting. Averaged about 10/5/10 respectively.
Comment by Tone FKS — January 19, 2013 at 11:17am
40. OH Squat 2RM: 285x2 (300x1)

DWOD:
Thrusters - 7
Pull-ups - 5
Burpees - 7
Comment by Tony — January 19, 2013 at 11:51am
41. @CW- I can dig it. Was just surprised. I like to throw in a little more running/rowing on a Saturday for a change of pace, but anything more than a hard mile and/or a few 400s starts to feel tedious for me. Agree that backing down on the heavy stuff on Sat. always leads to a better Monday.
Comment by TRuss — January 19, 2013 at 1:10pm
42. Some hostility on the site today lol. If someone asks a question we should just be able to answer it or at least give our best personal opinion, not make them feel like they have any less brain functionality than anyone else. If homeboy wants to know the absolute physics behind an american vs. russian kbs and how it fits into this particular programming, let him, and we can all respectfully debate. Me personally, I just wanna workout. I mean this is crossfit after all, its about the community.

DWOD: 138 scaled. Did regular pullups since I didnt have anything to weigh me down and did 35# kb thrusters. Really sore after last two days. Didnt have time for the OHS stuff.


Comment by Jabroni — January 19, 2013 at 1:37pm
43. @ Ferreus - do you find it bounces around much when striking? I subbed slamming a sandbag in to a punch bag on the floor. Worked ok but sand all over the shop. #gettinitdone
Comment by Baz — January 19, 2013 at 2:07pm
44. @Truss- tedious indeed. Thats part of what i enjoy. I feel as though the ability to grind through an hour or so of LSD (long slow distance) is important in it own right, especially with respect to building mental toughness.
Comment by CW — January 19, 2013 at 4:35pm
45. Been taking time off from posting as I started training at a CF Box in town. I see we all still have trouble getting along. Sweet, grow up.
Anyway, reason for me post was to give props to Mr. T Foster on that sick OHS. Strong work, nice job.
Comment by RAK — January 19, 2013 at 5:12pm
46. OHS 2RM - 200# PR. Felt good.
WOD - 85 reps rx'd.
Comment by SamR - 23/5'7''/175 — January 19, 2013 at 5:26pm
47. Taught daughter to ski while son boarded all day. Awesome wod!!!
Comment by Bert — January 19, 2013 at 5:51pm
48. Making up for missed bench thurs
190 5/5/4

OHS-first time 5 each 35/40/45
Then 2 each 55/65/75/85f/85/90

DWOD
85# barbell thruster 4/4/4/3/4
pull-up (toes on bench after 1st set) 5/6/6/7/6
Burpee 4/5/5/5/5
Total 73
Comment by KellyG — January 19, 2013 at 6:01pm
49. I suck at overhead squats...it was my first time doing them though.

DWOD: 76 reps using 40# Dbs and unweighted pullups
Comment by Andrew K. — January 20, 2013 at 2:09pm
50. Catching up, did this monday morning.
205-OHS 2rm
DWOD rxd
99 reps. Weight slipped off of toes on 3rd pull up set.
Male 5'10/190 age-24
Comment by Jake — January 21, 2013 at 8:36am

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